PRADYUMNA: (leads chanting,
etc., with Śrīla Prabhupāda
responding with devotees)
dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]
PRABHUPĀDA: That’s all. So
dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām.
In the human society, there is
always some kinds of religious
institution. That is called dharma,
faith. Real dharma means—that I
have already explained—
occupational duty. Constitutional
duty, that is called dharma,
functional duty. So real dharma,
real religion is to become servant
of God, or to render service to
God. That is real religion. But we
have manufactured so many
religions. Different societies,
different circumstances, different
country. Therefore it is advised
herewith that you may execute
any kind of religious faith, but
the result should be perfect. You
can say, “I am very perfectly
executing the ritualistic
ceremonies, and the tenets
described in my scripture, Bible
or Veda or Koran.” That’s very
good. But what is the result? The
result is that you must develop or
increase your tendency to hear
about God. But if your ultimate
truth is impersonal, mostly they
consider God has no form. Then
if God has no form then what
he’ll hear about Him. Simply
formless, formless, formless. How
can you, how long you can go
thinking like this, “God is
formless”? If God is formless,
then your idea of hearing about
Him is finished, because formless,
there is nothing, activities.
But actually God is not formless.
Several times I have explained.
God has got His form. He is
person. He has got His activities.
Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it
is said, janma karma, ajo ’pi sann
avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro ’pi
san. Although He is aja, nobody
has to die, aja. Aja means birth.
Nobody takes birth. Either the
living entity or God, na jāyate na
mriyate. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is
said that the living entities, we
are all living entities, na jāyate,
they do not take birth, neither
they do die. Na jāyate na mriyate
vā kadācit, at any time. Then
what is this death and birth? The
death and birth is simply change
of the body. The subtle body and
the gross body.
Just like every night we die. The
gross body remains inactive on
the bed, and the subtle body
takes me away. I dream, I go in
the dreamland. I have gone to
some friend, I am talking with
somebody, I am working in a
different way. That is our daily
experience. This means that we
have got two kinds of body. One
body is this gross body, and the
other body is subtle body, made
of mind, intelligence, and ego. So
foolish person, they do not see
the subtle body, but the subtle
body is there. Everyone will
accept. I am working with my
mind, intelligence and ego.
Everyone knows. So although we
cannot see the subtle body, it is
there. So death means this gross
body, this overcoat is left, and I
am carried away by the subtle
body, and I enter into another
overcoat, or gross body. So
practically this is called death.
Because we have no vision of the
subtle body, how the soul is
being transferred or
transmigrating from one gross
body to another gross body,
keeping the subtle body intact.
And the subtle body is given up
when one is liberated. And at
that time he goes, when he is
liberated, freed from this subtle
body also, at that time he is
promoted to the spiritual
kingdom in spiritual body.
Therefore while living in this
gross body, we have to educate
our subtle body in such a way
that it becomes spiritualized
completely.
The subtle body is mind,
intelligence and ego. So if we
think of Kṛṣṇa in the mind,
always, and if we work
intelligently for Kṛṣṇa, that is
mind and intelligence. And if we
change our false ego, ego means,
“I am.” So I am at the present
moment thinking, “I am
American,” “I am Indian,” “I am
white,” “I am black,” like that. “I
am human being,” “I am animal,”
“I am cat or dog,” so many
things, “I am.” This “I am” has to
be changed. I am eternal servant
of Kṛṣṇa. In this way, if you
educate or transfer the activities
of the subtle body, mind,
intelligence, and ego, then, at the
time of death, you give up this
subtle body, material subtle
body, mind, intelligence, and
ego, and by your spiritual body
you go back to home, back to
Godhead. This is called Kṛṣṇa
consciousness movement. Gross
body, automatically we give up.
Now, we should practice to give
up the subtle body. To give up
this subtle body, one has to
develop love for God, prema.
And the process is, how to give
up the subtle body.
Ādau śraddhā, first of all śraddhā.
Śraddhā means a faith or some
respect. Actually it means
respect. Just like you have come
here out of faith and respect. So
here they’re talking about God.
There is temple of God, let us go
there. This is faith and respect.
Ādau śraddhā. This is the
beginning. Now, after coming
here, when you hear about God,
because we, our only business is,
we don’t talk here politics or
sociology or anything. That
comes automatically as
subordinate things, but our
business is to talk about God. So
those who talks about God, they
are called saintly person. There
are two kinds of men within this
world. Materialistic person and
transcendentalist, or man
interested in spiritualism. So
those who are interested in
spiritual life, they talk of self-
realization. And those who are
materialistic person, they also
talk. They talk about this body,
how to keep this body nicely.
There are politics, sociology,
welfare activities, so many things,
all concerning to the body. So
there are many talks, just like in
the newspaper. In your country
especially, bunch of newspaper.
So many talks, advertisement,
fashion, this news, that news, full
up. So the materialistic person,
they read the newspaper, but we
read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is
the difference. We are also
reading. They are also reading.
So nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ,
śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi
sahasraśaḥ [SB 2.1.2] Śukadeva
Gosvāmī said to Parīkṣit
Mahārāja, “My dear king, there
are many hundreds and
thousands of topics for the
materialistic person.” Sahasraśaḥ.
Sahasraśaḥ means thousands,
and that is a fact. So many
novels, so many fiction, so many
so-called philosophy, newspaper,
cinema paper, this paper, that
paper, so many. Sahasraśaḥ.
śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi
sahasraśaḥ apaśyatām ātma-
tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām
[SB 2.1.2]
Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam.
Because they do not know, they
have no information of the soul,
they are talking about this body.
Or sometimes about this mind.
Philosophical speculation,
concoction. One philosophy is
theorizing something, another
philosopher is theorizing
something. Lots of literature. All
nonsense, because it is mental
speculation. I speculate in one
way, you speculate in another
way. You refute me, I refute you.
So therefore, these talks of the
body and talks of the mind, there
are varieties. Nṛṇāṁ santi
sahasraśaḥ apaśyatām ātma-
tattvam [SB 2.1.2] Why they are
engaged in so many talks?
Because they do not know,
apaśyatām. They have no vision
of the soul, ātma-tattva. Gṛheṣu
gṛha-medhinām. Gṛhamedhī,
those interested simply to
maintain this body, they are
called gṛhamedhī.
Generally, atheist class, they have
no interest in God. The atheist
class long, long ago, thousands
of years ago, there was atheist
also. Because there are two
classes of men always within this
world, atheist and theist, asura
and deva, devatā. So not that
atheist class men have developed
at the present moment. It may be
the number has increased, but
atheist class of men were long,
long ago also. There was Carvaka
Muni, he was also called muni.
Muni means mental speculator,
or thoughtful. So this Carvaka
Muni, he also presented his
philosophy, atheism, that ṛṇāṁ
kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ
jīvet. So long you live, you live
very joyfully by enjoying your
senses. This is atheistic principle.
And in India the sense enjoyment
principle is based on ghee,
clarified butter, because if they
get butter, they prepare so many
nice preparations. You have also
learned how to do it. (laughter) In
India there are varieties. If you
sometimes go to India… In Delhi
there are shops, many varieties of
foodstuffs, all from grains and
fruits, that’s all. Grain, fruits,
ghee, sugar, and salt. Varieties,
hundreds. So eating, sleeping,
the basic principle is eating,
sleeping, mating. So Carvaka
Muni says that “Live very joyfully,
and eat very nicely, enjoy your
senses, finish your life. That is
atheism. Apaśyatām ātma-
tattvam [SB 2.1.2]. They have no
vision that there is soul.
The soul is transmigrating. There
are 8,400,000 species of bodies;
and you are transmigrating from
one to another, another, another,
in this way. They don’t care for it.
Even if he is informed, that if you
are acting like this you are going
to be a tree next life, “Oh, it
doesn’t matter, let me enjoy.”
You see. They say frankly, “If I
become tree what is the harm? I
shall forget.” The people have
become so rubbish that they
have lost their self-interest. Just
like if you say to a child that “You
are always playing, you are not
going to school, you are not
becoming educated, you will
suffer in your future life, you will
have no position in the society.”
But if he says, “I do not care…” He
may say that, but the risk is there.
Similarly the modern human
being, you inform him about the
transmigration of the soul, and
by his activities he is supposed to
become next life very low grade
animal, or aquatics, or reptiles. So
if they are informed, if they do
not care, that is not very good
intelligence. This is a fact.
Just like, in my, this life, I can
experience. In each stage of my
life, I have my past, present and
future. You are all young boys.
You had your past, as a child, as a
boy. Now you are young, and
your future is also there as old, as
I have become old. So in any
stage of life, there is past,
present, and future. So why not, I
am old man, so when I shall die,
why there is no future? There
must be future. I had my past, I
am at present, and there must be
future also. The future is that I
must get another body. That
body may be of animal or trees
or demigod or God. That is
stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yānti
deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-
vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25] You can prepare
yourself for your next body. So
ultimate goal is to get a body in
the kingdom of God. That is—
saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ—
that is highest perfection. You
can get a body next, as a human
being in the rich man’s family, or
as a king, or as a leader, or as a
cat, as a dog, as a tree. That will
depend on your work. Similarly
you can get your next body as
associates of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is
stated, that you can have, mad-
yājino ’pi yānti mām. “Those who
are My devotees, they come to
Me,” Kṛṣṇa says.
And what is the benefit of going
to Kṛṣṇa? Mām upetya kaunteya
duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
nāpnuvanti [Bg. 8.15]. “If
someone comes to Me, then he
does not get any more this
material body to come to this
material world.” What is the harm
if I come to the material world?
That duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
[Bg. 8.15]. This material world is
full of miseries, and that also
temporary. Even if you accept
that I shall adjust my miserable
condition of life, but still nature
will not allow you to live there.
You may think that “We are
Americans, we have got enough
money, vast land, resources, I
shall live as American.” But you
can live as American, say for fifty
years. You’ll not be allowed to
live as American or as Indian or
this or that. Even as Brahmā you
will be not allowed. Brahmā has
got his one day millions of years.
He will also not be allowed. The
ant will not be allowed, a cat will
not be allowed, an elephant will
not be allowed, a man will not be
allowed, a demigod will not be
allowed—to live forever.
Hiraṇyakaśipu tried to live
forever. He underwent severe
penances to become immortal. It
was not possible. That is not. Of
course, the lunatic scientist says
that “By scientific advancement
we shall become immortal.” They
are lunatic. It is not possible.
Because in the past there is no
such incident, so in the present
there is no such incident, how
you can expect in the future such
incident? That is not possible.
Therefore, intelligent persons,
they should try to get the
ultimate transmigration. Ultimate
transmigration means go back to
home, back to Godhead. That
should be the actual aim of life.
That is first class intelligent. But
they do not know. Therefore we
are trying to render our humble
service to the human society, to
give this information, that “You
are trying for so many things for
becoming happy, but instead of
being happy, you are becoming
hippie. So please take this Kṛṣṇa
consciousness and actually you
will be happy.” That is our
mission. That is our mission.
Therefore the Bhāgavata says to
this hu…, civilized human being,
those who have got some
religious principle, church,
religious institution, that “You are
executing your religious
principles very nicely, that’s all
right. But if you do not develop
the propensity for hearing about
God…”
Just like we have got this temple.
We are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa
Deity. That’s all right. But side by
side we must develop to hear
about Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it will be
finished after a few days.
Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. As soon as
there will be no interest for
hearing about God, all these
churches and temples and
mosques will be finished. In the
Christian world that is happening,
not only Christian, in other also.
They are selling churches.
Nobody is going to church,
because simply officially going
on Sunday without any
enlightenment, without any
understanding about God, how
long it will be prolonged? It
cannot be prolonged. People will
be disinterested, and they will
not go. Actually it is happening.
There are so many churches,
nobody is going. In London, I
have seen. In your country also,
there are so many churches
vacant. We have purchased so
many churches. In Los Angeles
we have purchased that church.
When it was running as a church,
it was a deserted (indistinct).
Since we have taken that, every
night, every day, hundreds of
people are gathering like this,
because there is words of Kṛṣṇa.
And people are hearing about
Kṛṣṇa. Viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ.
So you can have your churches,
temple or mosque, but if you do
not develop your tendency to
hear about God, then it will not
be successful, śrama eva hi
kevalam. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ. Dharmaḥ
svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratim [SB 1.2.8],
by going daily to the temple, or
to the church, or to the mosque,
or anywhere, any religious
building or institution, if you do
not develop your propensity to
hear about God, then you have
wasted your time. Śrama eva hi
kevalam. Going and coming, it is
simply labor, that’s all. So that is
the test. Therefore either in
temple, or in church, in mosque
there must be regular recitation
on the talks of God. Otherwise
people will lose interest, and the
churches and temples have to be
closed.
So that talks of God is here in
Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because our
God is not impersonal, void. No.
He is the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa.
You can see personally how He’s
standing, how He’s enjoying with
His eternal consort, lover, Śrīmate
Rādhārāṇī. Here is God, actually
God is not engaged in punishing
somebody, original God. God is
engaged in enjoying with His
eternal consort, Śrīmate
Rādhārāṇī. This Śrīmate
Rādhārāṇī is enchanting Kṛṣṇa,
and Kṛṣṇa is enchanting
Rādhārāṇī. This is the business of
God. Duhe (indistinct) lage hari
(?). In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is
said that when Kṛṣṇa comes
before Rādhārāṇī, She becomes
so much engladdened by seeing
the beauty of Kṛṣṇa that She
becomes more beautiful, and as
soon as Rādhārāṇī becomes
more beautiful, Kṛṣṇa becomes
engladdened and He becomes
more beautiful. So unlimitedly
there is competition of becoming
more beautiful, duhe lage hurai
(?). That is the state. Competition.
Because in the spiritual world
everything is unlimited. So
unlimitedly both of them
becoming beautiful and both of
them enjoying unlimitedly. This is
Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So similarly, if we develop our
propensity to hear about God
and His activities, with His
cowherd boys friend, with His
girlfriends, gopīs, with His
mother, with His father, with His
teacher, so many! Everything is
imitation, perverted reflection
here also you have got those
relationship. Relationship
between father and the son,
relationship between conjugal
lover, the boy and the girl,
relationship between friend and
friend, relationship between
master and servant. Everything is
here also, but because they are
material, they do not stand. I am
servant of somebody. If he does
not pay me salary, I give up his
service. I am friend of somebody.
If my intention is not fulfilled,
then I give up that friendship. My
love with a boy or with a girl is
there, but as soon as there is
some discrepancy there is
divorce. So here everything is
perverted and with so many
faulty ideas, but this very thing is
there in the Kingdom of God. In
relationship with God, Kṛṣṇa. And
there everything is eternal. By
becoming servant of God, you’ll
eternally enjoy, same as master.
By becoming a friend of God, you
enjoy eternal friendship. By
becoming father or mother of
God, you enjoy the parental
affection between father and son.
And by becoming lover of God,
you become eternally happy.
So unless you hear about these
things, then how you can be
intensified to go to God. Just like
when I hear about some country.
That this country is like this, and
there is such and such happiness
and such and such enjoyment,
then we think of making a tourist
list to go there. Therefore to go
back to home, back to Godhead,
unless we hear about Him, how
we can be inclined. Therefore
God comes, Kṛṣṇa comes. He
manifests His pastimes in
Vṛndāvana. How He’s dealing
with friend, servant, mother,
father, lover, so that we may be
inclined to go back to home,
back to Godhead. This is God’s
mercy. Therefore executing
religious principle means the
result must be to develop our
propensity to hear about God.
Notpādayed yadi ratim. This rati,
rati means just like rati is called
sexual appetite. The Gosvāmīs,
they have described rati, how rati
is explained. (indistinct). Just like
young boy and young girl, they
meet together. Immediately their
sex impulse become agitated. It
hasn’t got to be taught them.
Naturally. Naturally. He wants to
talk or she wants to talk. So this is
called rati. Spontaneous
attraction. This is called, it has not
to be taught, spontaneous. So as
soon as there is spontaneous
attraction to hear all about God,
that will mean that we are
attaining perfection in religion.
So if you are going on as a
happening program to the
church, to the temple, or to the
mosque, but there is no
spontaneous attraction for
hearing about God, then it is
simply labor, simply waste of
time, that’s all. That is explained
here.
dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ śrama eva
hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]
So to come to this platform of
spontaneous attraction, you have
to execute some other formulas.
What is that? As you are coming
here with some faith, śraddhā, or
respect. Here is a temple so you
should come. You should come
regularly. Why? Ādau śraddhā
tataḥ sādhu-saṅga. If you come
regularly, then these boys and
girls who are engaged in the
worship of Kṛṣṇa, or who are
developing the life of devotee,
practicing under the direction of
their spiritual master, they are
called sādhu. Sādhu means those
who are acting very pious. So
those who are acting for Kṛṣṇa,
they’re automatically pious,
because God is pure, and those
who are acting for God, they’re
pious. Each and every activities in
this temple are pious activities.
Therefore they are pious. Ādau
śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga. And
as soon as you associate with the
pious devotees, naturally there
will be inclination to act like
them. Why not act like them?
Actually that is happening. They
are dressing like this or they’re
keeping their body like this.
They’re chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa
mantra in the bag. They’re
worshiping. They’re reading. Why
not become like that?
So ādau śraddhā, first with
respectful tendency to come in
this center, then to make
association with them. And then
next stage is to become like
them. Then he approaches the
spiritual master, “Kindly initiate
me,” bhajana-kriyā. And as soon
as you take to this bhajana-kriyā,
to devotional service, anartha-
nivṛttiḥ syāt. Anartha, some
unwanted things which you have
practiced. What is that? Illicit sex.
Or if you want sex, why don’t you
marry and live respectfully,
husband and wife. Why illicit sex?
This is unwanted, but we are
practiced. But if you become
devotee, you can give up this
nonsense practice. Illicit sex,
meat-eating. Why meat-eating?
We have got so many nice
preparation Sundays, rasagullā,
halavā, purī, luci. Why shall I eat
this nasty thing, rotten. It is
slaughtered and kept for 3,000
years in the refrigerator
(laughter), and this rotten thing is
taken and eaten. So why should
we take that. Why smoking? This
nonsense. It is stated in every
cigarette box it is injurious to
health or something like, what is
that?
DEVOTEE: Warning.
PRABHUPĀDA: Warning. But still
they’re eating that poison,
they’re drinking. So these are
anarthas, unwanted things. By
bad association we are
habituated to this nonsense
practice, but if you become a
devotee and render service to
Kṛṣṇa under the direction of your
spiritual master, these things will
automatically vanquish. Anartha-
nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā, then your
faith becomes firm. Tato niṣṭhā
tato ruci athāsaktis. Asakti, it is
spontaneous attraction. Religious
principle means you have to
execute the preliminary formulas,
but the ultimate end will be you’ll
have spontaneous attraction for
hearing about God or Kṛṣṇa. That
is wanted. If that thing is not
done, then you are simply
wasting time by going to church
or temple or mosque or any
nonsense. Notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam. Simply
waste of time. So don’t become a
showbottle of religious life.
Actually try to understand what is
religion, what is God, and make
your life successful. Thank you
very much.